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Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected
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TOPIC: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected

Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #1

  • fatbear
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We're now finally moving forward in using Seblod for a company internal website!

We're seeing one very common problem with the UI that I'm hoping can be addressed.

Presently it is the case that in Article Manager articles, there are two links to edit an article. For example, under the Title column you'd see:

My Article
(Alias: my-article)

The top link in the Title area opens the article with the Seblod editor. The bottom link opens the article using Joomla's default (non-Seblod) editor.

This UI approach to editing articles is causing problems because:
  • Most of our articles are plain Joomla articles and we do NOT want to accidentally convert Joomla articles to Seblod content items.
  • Clicking the New button within the Article Manager always creates Seblod-format articles. This is unexpected.
  • The second link appearance does not appear to actually be a link. And the prefix Alias: does not imply that clicking on it should have any different behavior than clicking on the link above it.
The current link UI approach is causing unintentional user errors. Also, we have not found a direct way to create standard Joomla articles.

Proposal 1: Direct clicking on the New button should always create standard Joomla articles. When one hovers over the New button and sees the Select a Form dropdown, then if one chooses a dropdown item, an article should be created that is a Seblod content instance.

Proposal 2: There should be only one link per row under the Title column in the Article Manager. It should open the article in whatever format it was originally created.

I think the above proposals will help reduce unintentional conversion and incorrect creation of articles, make it easier to edit articles, and make the Article Manager page cleaner.
Steve Amerige, Fat Bear Incorporated
Web Engineering | Graphic Design | Creative Marketing
Website, Java, and Source-Code Hosting
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by fatbear.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SEBLOD - Bes

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #2

  • unleash.it
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Hi fatbear, congratulations on the new site.

Good news is you can change it so you have the opposite behavior. From the Seblod control panel home page, click on the Options button (top right), then on the Integration tab. For each view that you want to change (article, component, user, etc.), select "choose default".

I agree there are times (like when you just want to add a section to an existing site) where it makes more sense to leave some of the content native. But now after building a few Seblod sites I rarely see the point of having any non-Seblod articles. Even if for the reason that you can decide what the forms are going to look like (example: eliminating all the unnecessary crud).
The following user(s) said Thank You: SEBLOD - Bes

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #3

  • fatbear
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Thanks, unleash.it, for your reply. I did try changing to defaults for the Construction > Options > Integration > Integration with Joomla items.

After this change, I do see that for Article that the New button now creates a Joomla-style article and dropdowns create Seblod-style content items. This is the behavior I would have expected.

But, the existing articles in the Article Manager still have the same confusing two links: the top link edits via Seblod, the bottom link edits via Joomla. Choosing the top link causes unintentional conversion which is not wanted. It would be much better if there were only one link that would open the article in Seblod style if the article was originally created as an Seblod content item; otherwise, it should open the article using the default Joomla editor view.

As our team is working on our site, dealing with unintentional conversion is our #1 source of problems as some of our content is automatically generated via background processes outside of Joomla. If a person uses the top link just to view some content and the underlying database content is changed, our background processes will fail because the content no longer is in the expected format.

Because automatic conversion can have bad consequences, it should never be the case that automatic conversion should happen. It is just not a "best practice." If a person needs to convert an existing Joomla article to Seblod, there should be an explicit way to do it that cannot be done unintentionally.

Seblod is a powerful system, but it should not assume that it "knows" what the intentions of the website engineer are. I urge the developers to consider to adjust the UI so that there is only one link under the Title column in the Article Manager that opens the article in the same mode as it was originally created.
Steve Amerige, Fat Bear Incorporated
Web Engineering | Graphic Design | Creative Marketing
Website, Java, and Source-Code Hosting
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by fatbear.
The following user(s) said Thank You: hdvideo

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #4

  • fatbear
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As a temporary workaround, I've updated the file /administrator/components/com_content/view/articles/tmpl/default.php from:
<td>
<?php if ($item->checked_out) : ?>
<?php echo JHtml::_('jgrid.checkedout', $i, $item->editor, $item->checked_out_time, 'articles.', $canCheckin); ?>
<?php endif; ?>
<?php if ($canEdit || $canEditOwn) : ?>
<a href="<?php echo JRoute::_('index.php?option=com_content&task=article.edit&id='.$item->id);?>">
<?php echo $this->escape($item->title); ?></a>
<?php else : ?>
<?php echo $this->escape($item->title); ?>
<?php endif; ?>
<p class="smallsub">
<?php echo JText::sprintf('JGLOBAL_LIST_ALIAS', $this->escape($item->alias));?></p>
</td>
to:
<td>
<?php if ($item->checked_out) : ?>
<?php echo JHtml::_('jgrid.checkedout', $i, $item->editor, $item->checked_out_time, 'articles.', $canCheckin); ?>
<?php endif; ?>
 
<span style="font-size:100%;font-weight:bold;color:#000;">
<?php echo $this->escape($item->title); ?>
</span>
 
<?php if ($canEdit || $canEditOwn) : ?>
&raquo; <a href="<?php echo JRoute::_('index.php?option=com_content&task=article.edit&id='.$item->id);?>" style="color:#0B55C4;">
<?php echo JText::_('JGLOBAL_LIST_SEBLOD'); ?></a>
<?php else : ?>
<?php echo $this->escape($item->title); ?>
<?php endif; ?>
<?php echo JText::sprintf('JGLOBAL_LIST_ALIAS', $this->escape($item->alias));?>
</td>
and changed/added entries in the file administrator/language/en-GB/en-GB.ini from:
JGLOBAL_LIST_ALIAS="(<span>Alias</span>: %s)"
to:
JGLOBAL_LIST_ALIAS=": %s)"
JGLOBAL_LIST_SEBLOD="<span>Seblod</span>"
Lastly, I've changed the file plugins/system/cck/cck.php from:
if ( $more === true ) { 
$search = '#<a href="index.php\?option=com_cck(.*):(.*)([a-z\-0-9]*)\)(.*)</p>#sU';
preg_match_all( $search, $buffer, $matches2 );
if ( count( $matches2[3] ) ) {
foreach ( $matches2[3] as $k => $m ) {
$search = ': '.$matches2[3][$k].')';
$replace = ': '.$matches[0][$k].' style="color: #888888;">'.$m.'</a>)';
$buffer = str_replace( $search, $replace, $buffer );
}
}
}
to:
if ( $more === true ) {
$search = '#<a href="index.php\?option=com_cck(.*):(.*)([a-z\-0-9]*)\)(.*)#sU';
preg_match_all( $search, $buffer, $matches2 );
if ( count( $matches2[3] ) ) {
foreach ( $matches2[3] as $k => $m ) {
$search = ': '.$matches2[3][$k].')';
$replace = ': '.$matches[0][$k].' style="color: #0B55C4;">'."Joomla".'</a>';
$buffer = str_replace( $search, $replace, $buffer );
}
}
}
This is what the Article Manager view now looks like:

on-one-line-explicit-open.png


I would still prefer a single link that opens in the appropriate editing form, but this workaround will at least make it more obvious what editor is being used and help us avoid unintentional damaging of database content.
Steve Amerige, Fat Bear Incorporated
Web Engineering | Graphic Design | Creative Marketing
Website, Java, and Source-Code Hosting
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by fatbear.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SEBLOD - Bes

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #5

  • unleash.it
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Hi Fatbear, I'm not sure I share the same opinion as you do about this but I think the developers read these posts and your ideas would be noted. Thanks also for your hack, which I'm sure will be appreciated if there is anyone else in your same circumstance (reminder to anyone who uses this: because this overwrites the core files, you will have to redo the changes each time you update Seblod. Not advisable unless there are not other good options.)

I think there's room for improvement, but I think yours is a rare case for two reasons. One because you have your content managers managing content in the back end. Personally I almost always set my clients (who are sometimes organizations with many editors) to manage the front end only. The front end doesn't have this issue. Second, I think the vast majority of Seblod users use Seblod only for their content. So that is I think the reasoning behind the current process. IMO, making some of the changes you suggest would actually make the workflow for most Seblod users more difficult.

That said, I totally agree and have thought of it before that it would be nice to have control over changing content types assignment (native Joomla would be one of them). As it stands right now, there isn't even a way (except manually in the DB), to change content from one content type to another once it's assigned. I thnk they left it out because if you're using custom fields, you'd obviously loose your data. But if you're using all or mostly native fields (or needed to go between article and native like you if accidentally assigned) it would be useful. So the change I would suggest would be to add a new dropdown in all content that lets you choose the content type its assigned to (with a disclaimer about the consequences).

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #6

  • fatbear
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Hi unleash.it,

I've updated my workaround in the post above so as to not have multiple places where I'm documenting the workaround. The most recent version now has the UI back down to one line of display!

on-one-line-explicit-open_2012-01-13.png


Our backend processes include things like automatic data collection from servers, web logs, and a lot of other analytics stuff. So, it is important that this stuff keep working.

From a philosophical point of view, Seblod boasts of compatibility with other extensions. But to the extent that Seblod "takes over" and converts data to it's format, it ceases to be as compatible as the advertising would have people believe. Changing user's data should only be done with the user's explicit acknowledgement.

I'm not looking forward to having to keep patching the code, but this is a "make or break" deal for us, so unless the devs agree to modify the UI so that unintentional conversions are not easy to do, I'll have to do the hack. By the way, needing to fix the code is a great way to learn Seblod!

Many thanks for your commenting and discussion.
Steve Amerige, Fat Bear Incorporated
Web Engineering | Graphic Design | Creative Marketing
Website, Java, and Source-Code Hosting

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #7

  • unleash.it
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Hey, totally understand your situation. But that's the beauty of open source. You can make it do what you need it to.

Just my opinion that this isn't an issue for most Seblod users.

From a philosophical point of view, Seblod boasts of compatibility with other extensions. But to the extent that Seblod "takes over" and converts data to it's format, it ceases to be as compatible as the advertising would have people believe. Changing user's data should only be done with the user's explicit acknowledgement.


Actually, it is compatible with most (but true not all, including the native RSS) extensions. Any extension that runs content plugins will work with Seblod. Even the few that don't could fairly easily be made to. So to me at least, this is a HUGE advantage over K2, etc. They way I see it, nothing will be perfect in Joomla until they have CCK in the core and a better content model. But it still has its good sides...
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by unleash.it.

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #8

  • SEBLOD - Bes
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Hello,

We are working on some modification and simplification about the integration of SEBLOD in the Article manager. It's concerns the same matter: to be able to manage easily classic Joomla articles and any SEBLOD content types.

Best Regards
5 Things to Start with SEBLOD 1. Documentation 2. Videos 3. Getting Started & FAQ 4. Tips & Tricks 5. SEBLOD Forum
If you use SEBLOD CCK, please post a rating and a review at the Joomla! Extensions Directory. Thanks to you.!!"
Joomla! Extension Directory Team Member (JED)
Joomla! Showcase Team Member

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #9

Greetings Everyone,
Good work Bes on improving this element. It will help with workflow a bit.

Related issue: copying a Seblod article in the Article Manager causes problems. I made a detailed entry in the Tracker for this, but wanted to mention it here as well. Here's the Tracker entry: www.seblod.com/support/tracker/2752-copy...s-seblod-fields.html

Thanks,
Matthew
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by MatthewSchenker.

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #10

  • unleash.it
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Related issue: copying a Seblod article in the Article Manager causes problems. I made a detailed entry in the Tracker for this, but wanted to mention it here as well. Here's the Tracker entry: www.seblod.com/support/tracker/2752-copy...s-seblod-fields.html


FYI this is a known issue and already in the tracker: www.seblod.com/support/tracker/1914-copy...gn-content-type.html

While perhaps somewhat related, this issue is not the same as the original poster's. Next time, please post a new thread unless the topic is the same. This helps keep the forum better organized and easier to read and search. Thanks.
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by unleash.it.

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #11

Greetings unleash.it
I think the issue is closely related, as both are about the topic of articles apparently being altered via the article manager. In any case, I would let the original poster determine if there is a relationship here.

If I see someone posting on a subject that is related to another one, I will point out that connection. Doing this is often better than starting a new discussion. Helping people out, and making connections between various discussions, is what this forum is all about.

Thanks,
Matthew

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #12

  • SEBLOD - Bes
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Hello,

@Matthew, your item tracker 2752 speak about the same topic as the 1914 item. It would be better to have it as a comment on the first item about this subject www.seblod.com/support/tracker/1914-copy...gn-content-type.html

Please post it as a comment on 1914 item and then I will close the 2752 tracker item.

Best Regards.
5 Things to Start with SEBLOD 1. Documentation 2. Videos 3. Getting Started & FAQ 4. Tips & Tricks 5. SEBLOD Forum
If you use SEBLOD CCK, please post a rating and a review at the Joomla! Extensions Directory. Thanks to you.!!"
Joomla! Extension Directory Team Member (JED)
Joomla! Showcase Team Member

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #13

Greetings Bes,
The two Tracker entries are somewhat related, but I'm actually describing a bit more detail in my entry and I'm getting into additional specific issues.
Thanks,
Matthew

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #14

  • SEBLOD - Bes
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Sorry Matthew, it must be like I said because this is the same topic. And the rule is to follow the first item. So you do it or i do. Don't want speak about it anymore.
Best Regards
5 Things to Start with SEBLOD 1. Documentation 2. Videos 3. Getting Started & FAQ 4. Tips & Tricks 5. SEBLOD Forum
If you use SEBLOD CCK, please post a rating and a review at the Joomla! Extensions Directory. Thanks to you.!!"
Joomla! Extension Directory Team Member (JED)
Joomla! Showcase Team Member

Re: Accidental Article Conversion; Confusing Links for Edit with Joomla vs. Seblod; New Button Behavior Unexpected 2 years, 9 months ago #15

Hi bes,
If you feel they are the same topic then of course you have the power to join them. But I don't see how they are the same.

One entry describes how copying does not save the content type; the other entry describes how copying causes published articles to be destroyed on the front end.

My tracker describes a pretty serious issue that needs its own notice, as it has quite bad consequences.

Thanks.
Matthew
Last Edit: 2 years, 9 months ago by MatthewSchenker.
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